Faith and the Democratic presidential candidates

You mean God's not a Republican?

Better not let James Dobson, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell hear you say that.

It's just Jim Wallis' group. The ubiquitous Wallis is one of those ministers who seems to speak out more about let wing politics than religion and thus is doted upon by reporters.

The fact that this group holds their "Pentacost" conference a week after the actual Pentacost shows that their focus is on things other than religion.

Former Leftist,

I think the major players in the American religion industry should go public, and conduct IPO's to sell stock in their enterprises.
Tax exempt status is so 20th century; the real money is on Wall Street.

Just think;
The Family Stock Values Council
The $700 Billion CLub
The Catholic Central Bank

The various sects could then, using free market principles, adjust their dogma to 'win' in the market place!

Professions of faith by politicians are no different from any other campaign rhetoric. They all say they're honest too, right up until the day the jury convicts them.

The public lunacy of Jim Wallis, the Democrats' Christian. Wallis' first remark on the massacre at Virginia Tech a while back, was to hail the remarkable "diversity" of the victims. True, Cho murdered 32 people in cold blood. But at least he achieved diversity! How comforting for the victims relatives and friends. Instead of denouncing the horrendous crime for what it is , he searches for a silver lining.

Obama grew up in the Islamic faith which teaches that Jews are pigs and monkeys. I wonder if that is one of the religious values that will be discussed.

S. Sherman,

Keep those posts' a' comin' buddy.

If Dubya's a deciderer, youse is a motivaterer.

I'm wondering why the people who run the Swamp will allow someone to post such obvious untruths as are contained in S. Sherman's post.

Really, I'm just curious.

What is the untruth? That he grew up in the Islamic faith or that Islam teaches that Jews are pigs and monkeys?

Cheryl,

maybe to balance the nut jobs that say the US Gov't was responsible for 9/11.

Don't hide stupidity, shine a light on it.

S. Sherman,
Let me help you out here. You are wrong on both counts. Obama did not grow up in the Muslim faith -- you ought to try reading his book, Dreams From My Father. It's not only a great read but would also help you understand his upbringing -- if you really care to understand rather than issue bigoted comments without any knowledge. Even if you don't like the guy. It's often informative to read about people you are not predisposed to like or ever will. Second: The mainstream of Islam does not teach what you suggest it teaches. Radicals with prejudice teach what you suggest. You might try reading up on that, too. It's easy to dispense cheap comments. Harder to read and learn.

1) Obama was given a Muslim name and had a Muslim father and a Muslim stepfather. His mother had no religion. He was registered as a Muslim and attended mosques as a child. Saying that he was raised a Muslim is not at all an unreasonable statement.

2) Islam does indeed teach that Jews are pigs and monkeys. This is not a "bigoted" statement; it is a fact. Read the Koran, specifically Sura 5:60 among others. The fact that this offends Western sensibilities and goes against the idea of religious pluralism does not make it false, nor does mentioning it make one a bigot.

'And now for the Dow Jones Religious Averages; The Catholic Central Bank up 3.25, Jerry Dollar Daze Falwell down 3/4, Pat End Times Robertson up 5.33, Jim Kool Aid Jones still trading as a penny stock, Family Values Council down 25 on continued reports of a connection between porn star Ted Haggard and James Dobson. This is the Fox News Financial Report for August 25, 2011. Have a great day.'

*********************

Mark,
Thanks for calling out that 'Sherman' guy. He was making us sick.

Sherman apparently doesn't understand that the Old Testament itself was the Bible of the God of Vengeance and war. The New Testament is the Bible of the Lord of Luv, Jesus Christ!

Hey Sherman! Get out of the Way Back machine and on to the Love Train!

Terry,
How many posters here have claimed US Gvmt. did 9/11?

Many of the cons. posting here have blamed Clinton, however.

The only complete retrograde posting here seems to be Sherman.

Sherman? Were you SS on Warner Hits Pace?

One more time, Sherman. Obama was given his father's name, and his grandfather's name. That's not a religious upbringing. And you slander a great religion.

Sherman,

This latest round of bigotry comes after you and JD did your Amos and Andy routine on "Spinning a Debate." And no, this isn't hidden behind the guise of intellectual debate, particularly now that it's repeated and compounded.

There's enough ugliness in the world. Why don't you reenact your march to the sea and keep walkin.'

Exit Polls in 2006? Is this news? Where is the beef?

I'm not a Muslim, so I wouldn't know about this. I Googled "Koran" and quickly found the text that Sherman was referencing.

It seem that it's important to read the preceding verses for context:

"5.57": O you who believe! do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among THOSE WHO WERE GIVEN THE BOOK [emphasis mine] before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers.

"5.58": And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand."

"5.59": Say: O followers of THE BOOK [emphasis mine]! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?"

"5.60": Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path."

So it seems the Koran is saying that nonbelievers who make "a mockery and a joke" of prayer are cursed and "made apes and swine" by Allah.

I don't know who "The followers of the Book" are. I suppose it could be either Christians or Jews or both. However, as I read it, this is primarily a commentary on IRRELIGIOUS people. It is THEY who are cursed, it seems.

Historically, Muslims and Jews had a certain affinity and coexisted peacibly till the High Middle Ages -- the 12th century. So it seems to me that at the time that this was written (7th century) it was unlikely to be an anti Jewish passage.

I'd appreciate hearing from somebody who knows.

Mark Silva,

I slandered a great religion? Exactly how and where? Are you saying I should be beheaded?

Adapted from islamicomicbook.com, a little quiz for people who say that Islam is a "great religion".

1) In 1968, who assassinated Robert Kennedy?
a) Abbe Hoffman
b) Tiny Tim
c) The Chicago Seven
d) A Muslim male extremist between the age of 17 and 40

2) In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
a) Olga Corbutt
b) Sitting Bull
c) Arnold Schwartzeneger
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

3) In 1979,the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a) Lost Norwegians
b) Elvis
c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

4) During the 1980's, a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a) John Dillinger
b) The King of Sweden
c) The Boy Scouts
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

5) In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a) A Domino's pizza delivery boy
b) Pee Wee Herman
c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

6) In 1985, the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
a) The Smurfs
b) Davy Jones
c) The Little Mermaid
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

7) In 1985, TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
a) George Washington
b) Benedict Arnold
c) Gold Selleck Silliman
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

8) When a train was blown up in Spain, who was responsible?
a) Captain Kidd
b) Charles Lindberg
c) Mother Teresa
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

9) In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a) Richard Simmons
b) Grandma Moses
c) Michael Jordan
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

10) In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a) Mr. Rogers
b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain: "Mustapha"
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

11) In 1999, The USS Cole was attacked and more than 15 American Sailors were killed by:
a) David Letterman
b) Shaquille O'Neil
c) The Cookie Monster
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

12) On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and and thousands of people were killed by:
a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
b) The Supreme Court of Florida
c) Mr. Bean
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

13) In 2002, the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a) Enron
b) The Lutheran Church
c) The NFL
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

14) In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a) Bonny and Clyde
b) Captain Kangaroo
c) Billy Graham
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

15) In 2001, Philippine Missionaries Gracia and Martin Burnham were kidnapped, held for over a year, and Martin subsequently killed by:
a) Mr. Rogers
b) Scooby Doo & Shaggy
c) Ronald Reagan
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

16) On July 4th 2002, two Innocent airline passengers were killed, and three others Injured at the ticket counter of El Al Airlines in the LAX International terminal by:
a) Hulk Hogan after losing the WWF Title
b) The cast of Monty Python
c) Senator Lil' Tommy Daschle
d) A Muslim male extremist between the age of 17 and 40

17) On July 31, 2002, five Americans were killed by a Palestinian HAMAS bomber in Jerusalem while attending school by:
a) The US Congress
b) The tooth fairy
c) The Easter bunny
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

18) On October 12th 2002 more than 200 innocent civilians (including 200 Australians and 5 Americans) were brutally murdered in Bali by:
a) Kermit the Frog & Miss Piggy
b) Bert & Ernie from Sesame Street
c) Charles Barkley
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

19) On October 29th 2002 more than 700 Moscow theatre goers were taken hostage and threatened with execution by:
a) Royal Canadian Mounted Police
b) Laurie Dhue of Fox News Channel
c) Dudley Do-Right and Snidely Whiplash
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

20) Given the patterns set forth in Questions #1-19, who should the US be worrying about for terrorists attacks?
a) Little old ladies
b) Buxom young women
c) People named "S. Sherman"
d) Muslim male extremists between the age of 17 and 40

Mark Silva is Wrong on this one! S.Sherman posted that Obama was raised a Muslim and Silva attacked him on that,but S.Sherman is right,he was raised a Muslim and it's very well known to people that have a brain and can read.
Also,the Muslim religion does teach that Jews are pigs and monkeys,infact Silva,because The U.S supports Isreal is one of the main reasons we got attacked on 9/11.
Also,Silva states that S.Sherman should read Dreams Of My Father as though it's 100% truthful and a look into Obama's soul,but many people that grew up with and knew Obama dispute much of it's content...
Mark Silva should spend less time attacking a posters view and read James Frey's,A million Little Pieces to understand that an author can embellish like Obama did! But,as we all know-Silva is just a lap-dog for Obama and his radical left socialist views.
What's wrong with you today Silva,are you a Miami Heat fan?

Paulo
Paulo

Mark Silva: This is an excerpt from his book too, just cause he wrote it, doesn't always make it true. People have a tendency to embellish one's life's' events sometimes, I'm thinking this is one of those times.

..................................................................................................

Mr Obama was later admitted to read politics and international relations at New York's prestigious Columbia University where, his book claims, "no matter how many times the administration tried to paint them over, the walls remained scratched with blunt correspondence (about) n-----s."

But one of his classmates, Joe Zwicker, 45, now a lawyer in Boston, said yesterday: "That surprises me. Columbia was a pretty tolerant place. There were African American students in my classes and I never saw any evidence of racism at all."

Bruce,

Highly intelligent source -- NOT!!!

From an Obama profile in the Dem-loving New York Times. It appears his upbringing was at least as much Muslim as it was anything else:

"The grandparents who helped raise Mr. Obama were nonpracticing Baptists and Methodists. His mother was an anthropologist who collected religious texts the way others picked up tribal masks, teaching her children the inspirational power of the common narratives and heroes.

His mother’s tutelage took place mostly in Indonesia, in the household of Mr. Obama’s stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, a nominal Muslim who hung prayer beads over his bed but enjoyed bacon, which Islam forbids.

“My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim,” said Maya Soetoro-Ng, Mr. Obama’s younger half sister. But Mr. Obama attended a Catholic school and then a Muslim public school where the religious education was cursory. When he was 10, he returned to his birthplace of Hawaii to live with his grandparents and attended a preparatory school with a Christian affiliation but little religious instruction.

Years later, Mr. Obama met his father’s family, a mix of Muslim and Christian Kenyans. Sarah Hussein Obama, who is his stepgrandmother but whom Mr. Obama calls his grandmother, still rises at 5 a.m. to pray before tending to her crops and the three orphans she has taken in.

“I am a strong believer of the Islamic faith,” Ms. Obama, 85, said in a recent interview in Kenya."

I find it interesting that Mark Silva accuses me of "slandering a great religion." Those were the words that were used when Salman Rushdie was sentenced to death.

Listen to the Wingnut crowd try to pin untruths on Senator Obama.

So much for their earlier spin that he had no chance at winning the 08 Prez election.

You guys better start trying to pump up those GOP wannabe's who are going to debate each other on Thursday, I want to hear them tell us why we sould continue to "surge" troops into someone elses civil war and I want them to tell us what "winning" in Iraq means.

Goodluck Wingnuts!

Leo T., FOLLOWERS OF THE BOOK refers to the three Abrahamic (is that the right term?)religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam (in order of their appearance). All three follow the same God, although each has its own traditions and requirements of its followers.

Interesting, all three religions maintain text that requires "The Faithful" to massacre those who believe differently from what that particular religion teaches. All three ALSO teach tolerance and acceptance of those who believe differently, and all three teach that every single word, every single syllable in THE BOOK must (not "should" or "might, if the mood strikes", but "must") be followed absolutely, to the letter, each and every time. Presents a bit of a quandry, no?

Don't hide stupidity, shine a light on it.
Posted by: Terry | Apr 29, 2007 4:23:18 PM

There's certainly been plenty of it here.

S. Sherman,

Oh yeah, you're such a thoughtful and intellectually reflective guy. You must be planning to malign Shintoism on a future post.

Bruce,

Answer key?

Op109
"Interesting, all three religions maintain text that requires "The Faithful" to massacre those who believe differently from what that particular religion teaches."

What religion other than Islam teaches its followers the proper method of decapitation?

Ex-Democrat (Dixiecrat), Former-Leftist, Bruce. Are you trying to break a record for sock-puppetry? Your rants all sound the same, no matter what name you attach to them.

President Bush meets with Muslim leaders at a mosque in Washington, DC (9/17/01).

The following is a transcript of President Bush's comments at a Washington mosque Monday afternoon:

Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had a wide-ranging discussion on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks, and so were Muslims all across the world. Both Americans, our Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslim in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens. These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith, and it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Quran itself: "In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil, for that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule."

The face of terrorist is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace, they represent evil and war. When we think of Islam, we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race, out of every race.

America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. The Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads, and they need to be treated with respect.

In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect. Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear covering must not be intimidated in America. That's not the America I know; that's not the America I value.

I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America. Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America. They represent the worst of humankind. And they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

And it's a great country; it's a great country because (we) share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth. And it is my honor to be meeting with leaders who feel just the same way I do. They are outraged; they're sad. They love America just as much as I do. And I want to thank you all for giving me a chance to come by, and may God bless us all. Thank you.

So Bruce, Former Leftist, Ex-Democrat, Present Sockpuppet,

Which is it? As your fellow born-again leader seems to suggest above, or are all 1 Billion plus Muslims Islamic terrorist or enablers of same? You seem so intent on painting Obama as a Muslim, and Islam as religion of violence, you must believe the latter. Maybe you should brush up on the Crusades, you're an historian, right? Or, you might want to rent Ridley Scott's "Kingdom of Heaven". Who knows, you might come away enlightened.

Leo T:

"Those who were given the book" is generally accepted to mean the Jews. It refers to the revelation at Sinai.

Mohammed claims that the Jews were turned into "apes and swine."

Op109,
I'm not about to defend Sherman. But I'd like to know where in the Christian doctrinal texts is the command to "massacre" unbelievers? Please cite chapter and verse so I can be enlightened.

OP 109,

When it comes to Christianity and Judaism I'm on familiar ground.

You asure us that "all three religions maintain text that requires 'The Faithful' to massacre those who believe differently from what that particular religion teaches."

Really?! I'm aware of no such command. Care to enlighten me?

Secondly, it's not so much that you are incorrect, but you are making an outrageous generalization by claiming that "...every single word, every single syllable in THE BOOK must (not "should"... but "must") be followed absolutely, to the letter, each and every time."

That's often true of fundamentalists, but you'll be hard pressed to find that belief among the mainstream. However, any Catholic or Lutheran (for example) or Reformed Jewish or Conservative Jewish theologian worth his/her salt will tell that's wrong. As will most congregants, by the way.

If you're going to read a Pop Atheist like Sam Harris, it's best to do so critically.

------------------------------------------------

Sherman,

Any fragment of text -- for example from the Torah, the Koran or Shakespeare's Henry V -- can be perverted to promote violence or murder. No doubt there are mullahs today who use the passage you've quoted to do just that. However, I'm talking about original intent, and I doubt that the original intent of that text was specifically anti Jewish.

I would still like to hear from somebody who knows, a theologian or scholar of comparative religion.

-------------------------------------------------

Ex-Democrat,

It comes as no surprise to me to learn that Obama's childhood religious instruction was eclectic, and includes some exposure to Islam. So what?

I'm much more upset about him taking Lobbyists' money and promoting ethanol.

A pox on all these managed religions. 'Big Religion' is the bane of our existence.

America, do you really need the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention to regulate your behavior?

I support taxing all church property in the US to fund single payer national health insurance.

Good day

Leo T:

Have you ever seen the video of Nick Berg being beheaded? It was a Muslim religious ceremony.

I am getting the impression that some of the liberals around here see Islam as some sort of ally against their "true" enemies, George Bush and the Christian Right. These people are deluding themselves. Islam is NOT their ally. Islam is a much worse enemy than rightwing Christianity.

If you don't believe that, ask Theo Van Gogh.